DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: Two years ago I started taking classes for a hobby of mine, with the main bulk of the attendees being women. Throughout my life I’ve found that I get along with women more than I do men, and it’s very clear that they enjoy my company and feel safe in my presence. As you can perhaps imagine, it’s been easy for me to form friendships within the group, as well as with any of the newcomers that join us.
Advertisement
Naturally, in circumstances where a guy has good relationships with the opposite sex, these friends of mine often wonder why I am single. By all accounts, I’m a cool dude. I don’t really have an answer for it, but there’s a couple of moments which have put me off from even trying.
During my first year at the class, there was a girl (A) who was a regular attendee. We got along well, and always had a good laugh or two. Many of us in the group had exchanged numbers to set up a group chat and arrange meet-ups, but she initiated a text conversation one-on-one for an unremarkable reason. She went on to initiate all of our conversations over text, always with a bit of banter, and this would usually happen after the classes despite having talked during them. From my understanding, these were all positive signs of a good connection and comfort level, as well as potential romantic feelings. After a few months of this going on, I discovered we had a shared interest in another hobby, so I invited her to join me for an event (that I was going to regardless). She declined and stated she was busy, but suggested another rough time-frame that we could do something. When I inquired as to when she might be free, she didn’t reply. In these situations I only ask once, so I bowed out gracefully.
She stopped attending the classes after that conversation. We did briefly reconnect a couple of months later when she messaged me to say she was returning, but she never came back and has been absent for over a year now.
These things happen. Unfortunately, they seem to happen consistently for me.
Fast forward twelve months, and there’s another girl (K) who joins our classes. We spoke on occasion, but nothing substantial. We did eventually exchange numbers, and it was then she began initiating conversations fairly frequently, and with much enthusiasm. On top of this, her interactions with me at the classes developed into a lot of playfulness, which again I took as positive signs. Once again, I learned we had a shared interest in another hobby, and so I extended an invitation for her to join me at an event. She accepted, and for weeks seemed very eager to go, but she cancelled at the last second.
Since then I’ve seen her at the classes, and while she will still talk to me if I approach, it’s clear from her behavior that there is a lot more distance. For instance, she no longer comes up to me to start a conversation, and she doesn’t make eye-contact when we talk. I will, of course, respect this distance.
On both these occasions, I’ve poured over text conversations and revisited interactions in my mind to try and piece together what, if anything, I have done wrong for these women to do a complete 180 in terms of their attitude towards me, and I’ve have had friends look at these conversations and declare I’ve done nothing bad. I went as far as to ask one of the other women at my class if I had ever done or said anything that would make a woman feel uncomfortable, and she confirmed that I was an incredible guy and was amazed I am single.
I understand it may very well not be anything that I have done, but the very idea that I may have made them feel uncomfortable is upsetting to me. It also annoys me that these relationships have been damaged, as I enjoyed their company (especially the second girl). It feels like these women have pushed for something more, but then have pulled back entirely when I do reciprocate. At the same time as being rejected, I’m also losing a friend in the process. This has happened at other times in my life as well, but these are the most recent.
As someone who doesn’t get a lot of romantic interest from women, it’s hard not to take things personally and to put me off the idea of dating entirely.
Three Times Is A Pattern
DEAR THREE TIMES IS A PATTERN: This is another one of those times where, absent documenting every interaction, text and conversation you’ve had with these women, it’s really hard to make any sort of substantive declaration about what you may or may not have done wrong.
However, there’re a couple things in your letter that I think at least hint at things that you should consider examining in yourself and asking if maybe there’s something you should be dealing with.
The first thing is that I think you take things far too personally when there’s absolutely no reason to, and I think you do so in a way that limits your ability to actually learn from these experiences and move forward. In the first example you give, nothing in what you describe suggests that A leaving the class has anything to do with you. Unless you were acting especially egregiously with her, I honestly think that whatever reason she had to drop out wasn’t related to you at all. You mention that you’ve had friends go over those texts; presumably they would’ve said “hey you’re kinda being a creeper as what creeps” if there was anything there.
The fact of the matter is that s—t happens, and s—t occasionally happens in ways that just happen to line up with what you were doing. Absent actual evidence that you had anything to do with A leaving and not rejoining the class, I think you can rest assured that this was just pure happenstance – bad timing that her being busy either escalated or other things were going on that meant that she had to leave the class and hasn’t been able to come back to it.
I would also point out that there’re plenty of times when folks may have every intention of returning to a project, class, interest group or whatnot but just don’t. Sometimes it’s bad luck, with one damned thing happening after another. Other times, they’ve gotten distracted or interrupted and by the time they came back up for air, the window of opportunity closed. Hell, sometimes it’s a hyperfixation thing and when the hyperfixation fades, that project/class/hobby/whatever becomes a source of stress and folks ditch it. This is how a lot of folks with ADHD end up collecting and discarding hobbies and have closets full of half-finished crap to show for it. ��ASK ME HOW I KNOW.
I would also point out that you give up very easily, especially in the face of a not-particularly strong refusal. “Hey, I’m busy that week, but I should be available around $TIME_FRAME” can be a soft no, but it can also be a “I don’t know what my exact schedule is, but let’s aim for this time and see”. I think it would’ve been fine to say “ok, want to tentatively choose a day, or would it be better to check in with you then?” If she didn’t answer one way or the other, I’d give it a day or two and then say “hey, circling back around, I wanted to double check if you’re still free around $TIME_FRAME”.
And honestly, I think it would’ve been fine to say “hey, you haven’t been to class in a couple of days, is everything ok?” That’s not being pushy, that’s just being a concerned classmate and friend. That might’ve at least given you an idea of what’s up, instead of leaving you with nothing but speculation and guesswork that you eventually turned inward.
I do have to wonder if this “bowing out gracefully” tends to look like “pulling back entirely” and leaving the impression that you’re hurt, no longer interested in them or otherwise were only interested in them as a potential date. That would definitely change the tone of the relationship between you and them and make them question just what you were looking for from them. While I doubt that had much to do with A leaving the class, it might explain why things changed with K and why she seems different now.
The other thing I’ve noticed in your letter is that I think you get a little excited when you feel like you’re getting interest from someone, and I suspect that this a) lead you to overestimate the level of interest they have, and b) that excitement means you get a little out over your skis.
I think you may have rounded up interest from both of these women to “potential romantic connection” when it was likely friendship with someone you found particularly appealing. And while I can absolutely understand and can relate to getting excited over the idea that someone may be interested in you… I think you let your excitement get away with you.
Now, I ask this as someone who has made this mistake back when I was younger, less experienced and way more excitable: is it possible that with K, you got a little too caught up in the excitement of going to this event to her and that might have motivated her to change her mind? Looking back on the messages between when you asked her to the event and when she bailed, were you going on and on about future plans or getting very intent on what was going to happen?
I ask because a lot of folks who haven’t had a lot of romantic experience (and I’m including myself from back in the day) can go into… let’s call it excitable puppy mode, where your eagerness and enthusiasm can be a little overwhelming. To you (the general you, not you specifically, TTAP) it’s innocuous. But to the person on the receiving end of it, it can be a lot. To them, it feels a lot like dealing with a cartoon puppy who’s always bouncing around going “hey Spike, what’re we doing today Spike huh huh huh, we gonna go chase some cats, I bet we can chase some cats, we’ll chase those cats good, wanna go chase some cats, Spike, let’s go huh huh huh?” That’s not necessarily malicious or even creepy… but it can give the impression that you’re reading too much into it and it definitely can be annoying and exhausting. Even someone who’s excited to go do the thing with you can decide that maybe she’s changed her mind after being on the receiving end of that sort of behavior. As a result… well, you end up snatching defeat from the jaws of victory and turning a “yes, absolutely” into “Oh look I forgot I have to shave my cat that day.”
AGAIN: ASK ME HOW I KNOW.
And to be clear: none of this is to suggest that you’re the bad guy here or that you did anything egregiously wrong. Without having observed everything or having all the transcripts and witness statements, there’s not much to go on – but nothing in your letter suggests that it was bad behavior on your part.
So it may be worth asking some of your friends if you’ve got a little too much golden retriever puppy energy with folks you’ve just met and if you need to slow your roll a bit. I get that the infrequency of the attention means that you feel like you need to leap on the opportunity, but I suspect that you’re getting more worked up than the situation merits and then being disappointed when it fizzles. I also think you need to not take everything personally, especially when there’s no actual reason to suggest that you were the root cause of someone’s actions. Most people have things going on in their lives that have absolutely nothing to do with you.
At the same time: I think you can afford to be a little less reticent in asking someone out or trying again another time. Sometimes “I’m busy” is a soft no, but sometimes it really is that they’re busy and their schedule’s a mess. You’re allowed to follow up later and see; if they are busy once again, well now you can assume that it was a soft “no” and they can come to you if and when they want to do something. And if they do give a soft no, pivoting back to being friends means just continuing to act like a friend. Part of why folks worry about things being awkward is because people make it awkward. If you continue to be the cool guy and good friend and your behavior shows that nothing’s changed between you and A or K or whomever else? Well, there may be some awkward moments, but you can both power through them and get back to being friends like you were before.
Otherwise, just be a little more chill. I suspect that once you do so, you’ll find that interest from women comes a lot more frequently… and you’ll be in a better position to take advantage when it does.
Good luck.
Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com