Ask Dr. Nerdlove

DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I’m a 30 year old man with little dating experience and consciously-learned social skills (they never came naturally). I’ve read two of your books, New Game Plus and I Got Her Number. My one real prior relationship developed from a friendship basis and she asked me out. We parted on good terms when our life plans diverged.

I’ve recently been going out with a woman I’ve met on a dating app, and we are texting almost every day. She’s a grad student in biology and I’m a software developer. I’m fairly physically active and she is very much so, and our dates and plans have so far all involved our shared hobbies of rock climbing and hiking, followed by dinner. We have also read books recommended by the other. I’m writing to you because I want to pursue a romantic relationship on top of these and I don’t know how to bring it up / be romantic. Maybe I’m overthinking things? That’s always a safe bet with me. But things like when to touch, kiss or bring up tasteful innuendo kinda escape me. When and how should I do these, and what’s a good segue to more “romantic” conversation and dates?

Making My Move

DEAR MAKING MY MOVE: I think you’re overthinking things, MMM. I mean, you met on a dating app. I realize sites like OKCupid have options for things like “Just looking for new friends” but honestly, the expectation is that if you’re on this app, you’re looking for non-platonic relationships. This is why they’re called dating apps and not friending apps.

Now that having been said, while folks can safely assume that the initial intent is romantic or sexual, how you act after you start seeing each other can directly affect things. If you’re acting like a friend and not showing romantic or sexual interest in them… well, it’s understandable that they might think you’re not into them. So, part of what you need to do is to make sure you’re acting like a potential lover, not just a friend.

That’s not to say you’re doing anything wrong, yet; you’ve actually been going on some pretty good dates. I’m a big proponent of active dates, in part because of how they affect us and how they make us feel. Humans are bad at understanding why we feel the way we do; we tend to feel the physical sensations and assign meaning to them after the fact. We associate those feelings with the person we’re with, rather than the activity. When we do something that boosts our heart rate and gets our blood pumping and our adrenaline surging… well, that may feel like fear, but it also feels like attraction and arousal. Those climbing dates, followed by dinner and sharing books? That’s a very good start for creating those feelings of arousal and intimacy.

However, you need to make sure that she knows you’re into her as a lover, not just a climbing buddy. There’re a few things you can do to help bridge this particular gap. To start with, you have plenty of opportunities for casual touch —  taking her hand while you’re hiking for example, or high-fiving and hugging each other after a particularly exciting climb. You can also make a point during any hikes to find particularly scenic or romantic vistas or stopping points where the two of you can get close and bask in the moment. Those also make a great time to move for a kiss. You’re setting the mood with that sense of physical arousal, closeness and gorgeous scenery. When you’re in a particularly beautiful area — maybe by water, or a glen in the woods — and the two of you are enjoying the view, you can look over at her and say “you know, this feels like a point where we should kiss” or — my personal favorite — “I really want to kiss you right now.”

It’s the sort of moment that feels like it would fit right in a classic love story, combined with that direct indication that yes, this is more than just platonic friendship.

However, don’t think that you need to be subtle or that you need a smooth “segue” to be romantic or take things in a romantic direction. Sometimes the desire for “smoothness” gets in the way when you would be better off just using your words. After all, innuendo can be missed, hints can be misinterpreted and moments can pass before you have a chance to make the most of them. But making your intentions clear by using your words and telling her what you want — even if it’s “I love climbing with you, but I want to take you on a romantic date” — means that she will know how you feel instead of wondering or trying to guess.

I realize that folks may think that it’s “not romantic” to say things plainly like that. But you have to ask yourself, which is less romantic: being direct with someone, or missing out because you and your sweetie never knew where you stood and both of you were too shy or hesitant to say anything?

When in doubt, it’s better to speak up and make sure you’re understood than to worry that being straightforward “ruins the mood” or some such shit. Clarity and understanding are far more romantic in the long term than gestures that may or may not send the right message.

Good luck.

Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com

DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I’ve found your advice for online dating really helpful recently, and this situation has me stumped.

I matched with this lady online and we hit it off well! But when I asked her if she’d want to meet up in person, she said she won’t be able to for over a month or so as she needs to revise. We’re still talking for now and she seems keen to meet, it doesn’t seem like excuse. But we’ve only been talking for a week and it seems like a relatively long time in advance to plan and to be patient for, but mostly I’m concerned we’ll lose that ‘emotional momentum‘ you’ve mentioned in previous posts, or that there’ll be expectations or assumptions built up over time.

Do you think there’s a way around this?

Newton’s First Law

DEAR NEWTON’S FIRST LAW: First of all NFL, congratulations on finding a match and that it’s been going well for you! It sounds like you’ve got a fairly good connection going on here, so I wouldn’t worry overly much about things fizzling out yet. However, it’s understandable that you’re worried about this connection going stale on you. After all, a month does seem like it’d be a long time to wait for a date, and it could seem like that excitement could fade over the time while you’re waiting.

So let’s talk a little about just what emotional momentum is, why it’s important to dating — especially on dating apps — and when you should and shouldn’t worry about maintaining it.

One of the common frustrations folks have with dating is how seemingly promising connections seem to fade out, often before they’ve even arranged a date. It seems like everything is going wonderfully and then the responses get shorter and shorter until, finally, it’s just radio silence. This is especially common on dating apps or when you’ve met someone through a cold approach. What gives?

Well, more often than not, what’s happened is that the emotional momentum from that initial connection has faded out. Our emotions follow patterns that are akin to laws of physics; in this case, the emotional excitement we feel tends to fall back to low levels unless there’s something acting to maintain that excitement. Much of this has to do with frustration and expectations. Think of how exciting it can be to find out that, say, you have a chance to get a PS5. Now, your window of opportunity will be weeks or even months down the line and it’s not guaranteed that you’ll have a place in line, but hey: it feels like you’re finally getting a next-gen game console! For a little while, you’ll probably be thinking about what games you want, whether you need a second controller and so on. You’re keeping that thrill alive with the sense of “well, this is finally gonna happen!” But without anything to maintain that emotional state, it’s hard to maintain that level of excitement and interest. Maybe you’re seeing other folks getting theirs and you have a twinge of excitement at the idea of getting yours… but there’s also going to be a certain amount of “well, hurry up already!”

And then after a week turns into two, then four, then eight and you’re still waiting to find out when — or if — you’re going to have your chance to buy the PS5… well,  you’re going to get increasingly frustrated,  even annoyed by the whole process. Yeah, you’ll be happy when you finally get to queue up, but that happiness is still going to be tinged by the annoyance and exhaustion of that long wait. Now imagine if, at the end of that waiting period you found out that you were going to have to wait longer.

We go through similar emotional journeys when it comes to connecting with folks, especially with relatively weak connections. And, quite frankly, our connection on dating apps and the like are weak connections. We don’t really know them; they’re a name, a picture and a notification in an app. That initial thrill of a match is lovely, but it’s fleeting and tends to burn out faster than we realize. The same holds for times when, say, we meet someone at a bar and get her number. A lot of the time, it’s a fleeting moment without much to anchor it into our consciousness; a great moment with someone, but not someone we’re overly excited about. Without reason to feel more excited and eager about us, that excitement and interest tends to fade.

Yeah, it may mean a lot to you — especially if you’re putting a lot of importance on this specific match or phone number — but for the people you’re matching with, it’s a moment, not the moment. Not because you’re not special or interesting or desirable, but because… well, you’re a stranger. If we got invested in every single stranger we met, we’d burn out like birthday candle being lit by a blowtorch.

This is why I always tell people that matching on dating apps is just the start. One of most important things you can do when you’ve matched with someone on a dating app is get off the app as soon as possible. Ideally, you want to move to meeting in person as quickly as you can. At the very least, you want to move the conversation from the in-app chat to texting or something like WhatsApp. Even then, however, you want to be making forward progress towards meeting in person; otherwise you run the risk of that emotional momentum fading.

Unfortunately, a lot of folks tend to dither and take their time after matching with someone. It’s understandable, especially if you’re relatively socially inexperienced. A lot of people are worried about rejection and want to make sure that they’re guaranteed to get a “yes” if they ask someone out on a date. The problem, however, is that they’re taking so long to get around to actually making a move that the person they matched with has gotten bored. They, quite reasonably, start to wonder if they’re actually interested or not. Meanwhile, they’re still talking to other folks who matched with them… folks who actually do ask them out on a date. And since someone can’t go out on a date they weren’t invited to, that other person gets the date and the ditherer gets radio silence.

A similar process happens with cold approaches; when people aren’t moving the interaction towards an actual date, there’s little reason to be excited or interested in this number they got. The excitement of that initial connection has faded because there was nothing to maintain it. In fact, this can happen even faster from cold approaches, because you didn’t necessarily meet in a dating frame of mind. And if you met at a bar or club, then there’s also the interaction of alcohol or heightened states of emotional arousal that can change how they feel in the moment and afterwards.

So how do you keep that momentum from fading? You give people reasons to be excited to hear from you and to see you. Proposing an actual date — not just to “hang out some time”, not to “get together”, but a specific activity on a specific date and time — is one of the best ways of keeping the momentum going. A specific activity gives them something to say “yes” to, where “hanging out” or “getting together” with someone you don’t know is so impossibly vague that you can’t really get worked up about it. Is it a date? Is it a friend thing? Is it just trying to get laid? It’s hard to say. Worse, for a lot of women, that uncertainty can make them feel unsafe. Knowing what you’re doing and where gives more of a feeling of security.

Similarly, “some time” is meaningless; at best, it means “find a place where you might be able to fit it into your schedule.” Locking down a specific date and time means that they’re making a point of carving out time specifically for that date.  If someone is making a point of reserving time for someone, they’re investing in you, emotionally. The act of making that investment helps keep the emotional momentum going, because they’ve made seeing you a priority. And by that same token, having a specific day and time means that there’s that sense of anticipation that keeps the excitement high. It’s giving them something to look forward to and get excited over, something they think about and anticipate and hype themselves up over.

Now, not everyone is going to feel comfortable going out on a date right away, regardless of how you met. It’s often a matter of feeling safe as much as it is about attraction. Other times, life just gets in the way and people’s schedules are so crammed that they can’t make time to see you. This doesn’t mean that you’re doomed to watch the emotional momentum fade. As I said: the excitement fades unless something happens to maintain that excitement. One of the easiest ways to maintain that excitement is to give them reason to look forward to hearing from you while you’re building that sense of comfort and safety. When people get a little thrill seeing a notification from you pop up, their emotional momentum gets another little push.

How do you get them to look forward to hearing from you? Focus on how to make them feel good. We inherently prioritize the relationships that make us feel good and work harder to build and maintain them. Flirting is the most obvious way of making people feel good; you’re showing interest in a fun and engaging way. Being able to make someone laugh is another; humor is attractive, demonstrates emotional intelligence and it makes people feel happy. So does having great, meaningful conversations. All of these help give little hits of oxytocin and dopamine, which makes people that much more eager to see you; they’re literally getting a high from you that feels amazing. That feeling keeps the excitement high and gives their emotional momentum another push, keeping things moving in the right direction while you work towards meeting up in person.

Notice how much I emphasize meeting up in person? There’s a reason for that: once you’ve met up, you’re no longer just theoretical. You’re an actual flesh and blood person, and you’ve got the chance to see if you have chemistry in person, instead of just over text. Once you’re together in person, you can have those amazing conversations and those exciting experiences together that help solidify your connection.

So with all that having been said: I think you’re in a pretty good place, NFL. You and your friend are having some great conversations, you’re both eager to see each other… it’s just a matter of timing. She’s busy as hell, which can’t really be helped. But the fact that she’s telling you when she’s able to see you again is a good sign: she’s letting you know that she’d see you sooner if she could. What I would suggest right now is a variation on my general advice: lock down a day for the two of you to get together and then start planning a date together. Start with a vague plan — “how about we do X as a starting point?” and work out from there.

Knowing that you have a specific day gives you both something to look forward to and to let that anticipation build. Meanwhile, talking about what you two would like to do on your date helps create a collaborative frame; you’re working together to create this exciting experience for the both of you. That sense of “ooh, what if we do this?” can get you both hyped and eager to go on this date while you discuss possibilities. You can even say “well, how about we do X on Y day and then we can do Z next time?” — the implication, of course, being that you’re both expecting the likelihood of a second date.

In this particular case, it doesn’t actually matter what you agree on initially; it’s a way of keeping that ball rolling while you talk about other potential options. Mixing discussion of plans together with humor and low-key flirting — hell, you can even flirt through memes you send back and forth — will help keep your mutual excitement high until you two can actually meet up in person. And who knows… maybe things will open up and you’ll have a chance to see each other sooner than you expected.

Good luck.

Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com

DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I am in great need of help to decipher a situation that I have going on with a friend of mine. It has been going on for a pretty long time and is kind of a big emotional trap that I have fallen into many times.

I’ll try to keep the backstory short so I can get to the present situation. I have a friend, we’ll call her A.

We have been friends since primary school and have had a bit of a back and forth thing going on ever since. I had crushes on her at times, she had crushes on me at times, but it just never really worked out. In particular for the last year of high school I was totally in love with her and was heavily pursuing her, but I could never make it happen. We hung out all the time, but there is something about this girl that just scrambles my brain when it comes to making a move. At the time I had had other relationships and made moves on other people, it wasn’t something that was really an issue for me, unless it was with A. I don’t know why, maybe because by this point it felt like there was so much on the line.

Anyway, after high school we lost touch a bit. She moved away and eventually I moved somewhere else too. We would talk from time to time, but pretty infrequently.

We ended up reconnecting 3 years ago when I was in her town for a few days. I had posted on facebook asking if I knew anyone in town who wanted to hang out and she asked me to meet her at a party. At the time she was in a relationship, but she is a good friend and I was just keen to catch up. When I went to the party there was a lot of chemistry going on. We were reminiscing over old memories and there was a lot of physical contact going on. I had a feeling that something was going on there, but she was in a relationship and also very intoxicated, so I had no intention of trying to take it anywhere. We hung out the next night too and it was the same deal. She also went on a big rant about how unhappy she was in her relationship and how she wants to get out of it and move to my city for university. But again, she got incredibly drunk that night (This is a pretty common occurrence), so nothing I could do.

She ended up coming to visit a few months after that, same situation, same chemistry, same complaints about her relationship.  She would also make a big show of explaining to people how she and I had had numerous crushes on each other in the past. It really really felt like something was going on here.

Fast forward a year and she ended up moving to my city, along with her boyfriend. This is where things get a bit weird.

The same stuff is happening, same chemistry, same complaints, also bringing up the story about our crushes to people when we hang out, including her boyfriend, which was very uncomfortable. At parties she clings to me intensely. If I walk away to get a drink or go to the bathroom she grabs my arm and asks where I am going. She will playfight with me and try to wrestle me. She will come and sit on my lap in front of her boyfriend. 

This s--t is seriously confusing and pulls me into this trap where I can’t stop thinking about the situation and trying to figure out what to do.

This goes on for about a year until she finally breaks up with her boyfriend. So here I am thinking “Holy s--t! It’s time!”. But she ended up sleeping with my friend before we got to hang out. Thanks to the lockdown for that.

That’s always a bummer, but it wasn’t a big deal.

We kept hanging out when we finally could and the chemistry was still there, but it was weird and different. There was still the wrestling and touching and clinginess, but she would also be very flirty with other people at the same time. Again, it is what it is, she’s single, she can do what she wants.

But there was a party at her house where at the end of the night she was calling out for me to come to bed with her and telling everyone to get out of her room. As you can imagine I was elated, only for my dreams to be quickly shattered. We got into bed and cuddled before she started asking me for advice about her situation with my friend. I gave what advice I could before I bounced out of there and walked home in the cold with a pretty sore heart.

So at this point my brain is f--ked. I have no idea what the f--k is going on, so I figure I have to shoot my shot. We hung out again a short while after that and this was my opportunity, I needed to know what was up with us. I really wanted to just make a physical move, and I kind of think that would have been better, but she is a very dear friend and I didn’t want to do something that might f--k that up. So I just told her how I felt and asked if there was anything going on between us.

It did not go well. She made a very shocked face and just slowly shook her head. We talked about it afterwards and it ended up not being a big deal, but definitely not the response I was hoping for or expecting.

As disappointing as it was, honestly I was just happy to have an answer. I felt like I could move on. Fast forward to now, I am slipping back into the trap because our interactions are back to feeling very flirty. We hang out a lot and she is still saying and doing some very suggestive things. She’ll send me “u up?” in the middle of the night and want to chat when she can’t sleep.

It’s such a confusing situation and I understand how it is easy for people to misread the intentions of their romantic interests because they only see what they want to see. But it isn’t just me. When I told my friends about the outcome of my confession they were more surprised than me.

So I just don’t know where the f--k I stand with this situation.

I’m not expecting anything here, if it is not to be, then that’s what it is and honestly I’m pretty sure that is the case. She is one of the best friends I have and I’m pretty thrilled to get to have that. I just need help to unf--k my head so I can understand this better.

Thanks

Brain.exe Has Stopped

DEAR BRAIN.EXE HAS STOPPED: Your friends actions may be confusing BHS, but what you should be doing is fairly simple: you need to lay down some boundaries with your friend.

I get why this is confusing. If we were to go strictly by her actions in a vacuum, you would be justified in thinking that she’s interested in you. All that random cuddliness and clinginess, her getting touchy-feely with you, telling folks all about how you and she used to have crushes on each other…  you could be forgiven for thinking that these were pretty solid signs that she’s warm for your form.

However, live doesn’t exist in a vacuum, and her behavior can’t really be divorced from all the context. As a general rule, when someone is giving you what feels like mixed signals, it’s important to pay attention to the details. After all, when you’ve got a crush on someone, it doesn’t take much for dickful thinking to cause you to round things up to “she wants to bang”. This is why it can be important to try to be as dispassionate as possible and look for commonalities and consistencies. What about her behavior is consistent, even when it seems like she’s saying one thing but doing another? Are there specific triggers for her behavior? Are there any recurring events or common denominators that crop up during the times when her behavior is at its most contradictory?

Well, as it turns out, there’re a few in your letter.

Let’s start with the most obvious: her flirty behavior seems to come out when she’s been drinking. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that all of the examples you recount here are either when she’s been drunk or at places or events where there’s been alcohol. That, in and of itself is important. However, the fact that she gets this grabby and flirty after a few drinks doesn’t necessarily mean that she’s secretly into you. While there’s a lot of truth (… as it were) in the concept of In Vino, Veritas, it’s more that alcohol takes your foot off the metaphorical brakes. Booze has a disinhibition effect that turns down the volume on the part of your brain that says “maybe this isn’t a good idea.” This means that you’re much more likely to act on impulse or make moves that you might think twice about in the cold light of sobriety. Sometimes this means that the voice that says “nah you couldn’t possibly like BHS, he’s your buddy, not someone you want to give a tongue bath to” gets muted and she’s more likely to act out on those desires. However, other times, it can dial down the part of the brain that says “this behavior is inappropriate and I shouldn’t do it,” or “if I were to do X with by friend BHS, he might take it the wrong way, so I should hold off.”

If we look at her actions and behaviors with that in mind, her actions make a little more sense, especially in light of her reaction to your telling her how you felt. If A is a hugger or a touchy-feely person in general, then having too much to drink can amplify that while also muting the part of her that says “you can go THIS far with your friend, but further than that would be too far and cause problems.” This can lead to her normally affectionate nature to seem much more over the top than it would be otherwise. It also means that she wouldn’t be considering the consequences of her actions — such as, say, hopping in your lap when you’re hanging out with her boyfriend. It’s quite possible that she never considered how any of that would look — to outside observers, to her boyfriend, or to you.

Too much to drink also makes it much harder to read the room, to process signals from other folks or even gauge what is or isn’t appropriate in the moment. Play-fighting and wrestling at a party may be ok at a raucous house party, but not a more chill event. Hopping in your lap can be a non-event if you’re the sort of friends who have that kind of casual contact, but if you aren’t, it can seem like she’s being flirty or trying to start s--t with her boyfriend.

And she very well might have been. If she was miserable with her boyfriend when you met up a year ago and was still with him when they moved to your town… well, it’s not impossible that in her drunken state she thought that slapping her hand down on the ol’ relationship self-destruct button would be a brilliant idea. Sure there would be all kinds of fallout for that… but that’s for Sober A to deal with later, not Drunk A.

At the same time, I think her drunk actions do speak to just how she feels about you.

Another one of the constants in her behavior with you is that she unburdens her soul to you. She did this when you hung out the first time you visited, she did this when she was visiting you and she did it the time she hauled you into bed with her. This is a pretty solid indicator of just what she thinks of you: someone that she feels safe with, someone she can be vulnerable with and that she can express all of her frustrations and concerns. To be fair: she’s doing this in ways that are counterproductive at best and in ways that seem wildly inappropriate — I mean, clearing the room and hopping into bed with you?? — but that’s a fairly consistent throughline in her behavior.

Another constant is that, even when she’s single, while she’s cuddly and flirty with you, but she’s hooking up with other people. There hasn’t been a real “near miss” situation where there was an unambiguous “trying to make out with you” that you had to pass on because she was too drunk to consent; while she may have been handsy and touchy, it doesn’t seem that any of it has been terribly sexual. Yes, that play-wrestling can feel like it’s going to lead somewhere, but it doesn’t seem like she’s ever tried to take it further. Same with hopping in your lap or any of the other behaviors. She may be clingy, but she’s never tried to kiss you or tried to get you to kiss her. Similarly, it doesn’t seem like she’s grabbed you in a particularly intimate or sexual way or made comments about wanting to bang. If I’m reading things correctly, it seems like her behavior might be more akin to an overactive puppy than someone hoping to pound the headboard against the walls.

Now, again: I get why all of this is frustrating. I can totally understand why you’re confused and frustrated by all of this. When you’re already interested in her, her behavior would absolutely seem like she’s trying to get you to make a move. And frankly, you did the right thing: you straight up asked her what the pluperfect hell is going on. That would’ve been what I would have advised you to do; if you think you’re getting mixed signals, the fastest and easiest way to unmix them is to just ask.

That having been said, it doesn’t always clear the air immediately. Sometimes the person giving those mixed signals will continue to obfuscate and confuse. They may feel conflicted and aren’t ready to deal with their feelings or desires. Or they may be continuing to play games and give contradictory answers.

But based on what you’ve described and the way she’s reacted… well, I think the likelier case is that she doesn’t consider how her actions could appear to someone else. I think part of why she seemed so shocked when you asked her what was up with the two of you is because she never realized just how she was coming across to you (and your friends). Granted, it seems like she’s been pretty hammered when things are especially bad, but it seems that the confusion is stemming from the fact that she doesn’t realize how her actions make you feel.

This is why the best thing for you to do now is draw a line. She knows you’re interested in her. If she’s not feeling the same, then her being flirty and suggestive isn’t just counterproductive, it’s hurtful. It’s hurting you when she gives these hints about being into you, whether she’s doing so intentionally or not. It’s better for you to say “look, this behavior bothers me. If you want me, then I’m down, but if not, then I need you to stop acting like that with me. It leaves me confused and frustrated, it’s damaging our friendship and I don’t appreciate it.” If she challenges you on whether she’s being flirty, tell her that it’s not that you think she’s flirting with you, it’s about how it comes across to you. Tell her that THIS behavior and THAT action reads as flirty to you and you’d appreciate if she’d stop doing those with you. Focus on the actions, more than the intent behind them. After all, it’s the actions that are causing the confusion. You may not be able to change the intent behind them, but you can at least get her to stop the behavior that’s been sending false pings on your radar.

However, if you lay down this boundary, you have to be prepared to enforce it. That means not responding to the “U up?” texts, telling her to please be less flirty with you, and, if necessary, refusing to engage with her when she’s had too much to drink. It also means reminding her that you asked her to stop doing this. That may well mean that she gets upset and you end up seeing less of her. And while that can be painful, the fact of the matter is that her actions are bothering you and making you uncomfortable. If she’s not willing to dial back behavior that’s causing problems for you, then that says a lot about her and how she regards your friendship. And if she’s willing to prioritize her desire to act how she pleases over the discomfort it causes you… well, you may be a good friend to her, but she’s not being a very good friend to you.

Good luck.

Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com