DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I’m in my early 20s, single, male, had less than a handful of dates in my life and I have a question: just where is a man supposed to meet women?
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You can’t hit on women at work, you’ll get fired for harassment, possibly sued and put on a list somewhere and if you break up you’ll probably get in front of HR anyway for creating a hostile work environment or something.
Can’t approach women on Instagram or TikTok or Snap, they’ll screenshot you sliding into their DMs and post it so their followers can laugh at you.
Can’t talk to women when you’re out during the day, they’ll call you creepy or say you’re harassing them.
Try to talk to women at a bar? That’s not what they’re there for, go away please, you’re being creepy. Clubs? Same thing, try to flirt after someone’s been grinding up on your dick and rubbing her ass in your face, get told that’s not what she’s there for or she just lets her friends get in your way while she goes to dance with someone else.
Obviously dating apps don’t work if you’re not one of the top men on the app.
So where’s a guy supposed to meet someone? I clearly missed my window in high-school and the dates I had were with girls in college who were in my class and I never got a second date with any of them. So what do I do now, just stand outside like a homeless puppy and hope someone gives me a forever home? Because it seems like we’re not supposed to talk to women ever.
No Talkie No Touchie
DEAR NO TALKIE NO TOUCHIE: If that’s going to be your attitude then… yes, there’s no talking to women, ever.
Ok, more seriously, NT2: I get that you’re frustrated, and not entirely without reason. But based on your letter I get the feeling that your bigger issues with not being able to talk to women is this surly attitude more than any “rules” about where you are or aren’t “allowed” to talk to women.
While I’m allowing for hyperbole, you’re coming in with a lot of assumptions and facts not in evidence. The way you frame these scenarios implies that these consequences are universal, unfair, arbitrary and happen because F--K YOU PENIS, THAT’S WHY. You’re coming into this with the presumption of not just hostility on the part of women but malicious intent, and that’s going to screw you far more than tripping over your dick while trying to do a cold approach.
Some of these speak more to your ideas on how women think or move through the world while also exaggerating the risks to men, rather than the reality on the ground. This sort of antagonistic “I can’t do anything because Jenny Killjoy will complain to HR” attitude is going to salt your game far more than social norms. It tends to speak to how you think of women and how this is somehow abrogating your privileges, and most women are going to pick up on that before you even open your mouth.
So that’s the first thing you want to work on if you want to be more successful at meeting women.
Now I’m going to put the dating app issue aside; that’s an entirely separate beast and something I’ve talked about multiple times before. It’s also yet another misunderstanding of how the Pareto Principle works, and that’s before we get to the gender imbalance on most dating apps.
Instead, we’re going to focus on the idea that you can’t approach or talk to women in public anymore.
This is a complaint that I hear pretty frequently and to be perfectly fair to you and to them: everything you’ve said is true… to a limited extent. But before you run off and crow about how unfair it all is, the issue here isn’t about how women have locked men out of dating or whatever, it’s about expectations, attitude and not understanding… well, a whole lot of things, but mostly not understanding women’s experiences and the social contract in general.
Now seeing as I conceded that this is true to a limited extent, for my next trick I shall astound the audience and acknowledge the validity of The Brad Pitt* Rule: it’s allowed if you’re hot.
(*In reality, Brad’s star’s waned rather considerably, seeing as he’s been credibly accused of spousal abuse, and he famously smells like unwashed feet and pit-stank, but he’s still the person folks reference soooo…)
Here’s the thing: this rule is correct… in as much as “people enjoy talking to people they want to talk to”. I am willing to bet, for example, that you’re not necessarily interested in having a conversation with someone who looks like someone crossbred skin cancer with syphilitic blindness and stank so bad they had cartoon lines radiating off them. Nor, I imagine, would you be interested in talking to someone who kept trying to turn the conversation to why you should invest in his Bitcoin scheme or who kept insisting that joining NXVM would solve all your problems, even after you clearly said “not interested”.
You might also not be in the mood to talk to someone after you’ve had a s--tty day at work, a fight with your friend or parents or had to say goodbye to a beloved pet, no matter how friendly or attractive they might be.
In all of these cases, you have reasons why you wouldn’t be receptive to someone wanting to chat, and you would be understandably annoyed if that person kept insisting on talking to you, regardless of your opinion on the matter. And if this happened to you, repeatedly, whenever you were just out minding your own business and going about your life, you might not want anyone to so much as look in your general direction, never mind come over to say “hey”.
You might also start having strong opinions about autonomy and boundaries when those same people started complaining about how it wasn’t fair that you weren’t giving them a chance or how you should be open to talking to anyone who came over to you.
So it is with approaching women; it’s not that you’re not “allowed” to talk to them or approach them, it’s that you’re missing (or ignoring) that women don’t necessarily want to talk at that moment – either in general or to you specifically, for whatever reason. Doubly so if you don’t take the hint the first time around. Triply so if you think that they’re not being interested or open to talking is unfair because reasons.
While folks think the rule is “rules don’t exist for hot people” – hence “the Brad Pitt rule” – the rule is really about “people get to decide who they want to talk to, and when, and about what.” If you think it’s unfair that women “only” want to talk to someone if they’re hot enough (they don’t, hotness is idiosyncratic, etc.) then I would point out that fairness doesn’t actually enter the picture. Not when your definition of “fair” really comes down to “won’t give me what I want”. Nobody is obligated to give you an opportunity any more than you are obligated to give others the chance to talk to you if you don’t want. Welcome to having boundaries and bodily autonomy, hope you survive the experience.
Someone who isn’t interested in talking to anyone at that moment – because they’re busy, because they’re not in the mood, whatever – might, and I stress might, make an exception for someone they find attractive. They might also be willing to talk to someone who makes them laugh or is able to distract them from what’s bothering them. But all of this continues to fall under “talk to someone they want to talk to”; their reasons may seem shallow but it’s their reason. You may have opinions, but you don’t get a vote. But I stress might make an exception, because you can still be hot and still annoy someone, be rude or offensive or otherwise be unwelcome.
The real issue isn’t whether someone is “hot” enough to “get away with it”. It’s that most of the time, the guys who are complaining about this are guys who don’t bother to read the room. They aren’t bothering to try to see if the person they’re hoping to talk to is open or interested in talking and, more often than not, they’re not interested in a conversation, they’re just trying to get a date or into her pants… without knowing the first thing about her. This is one of the reasons why I tell people that if you don’t have a lot of experience or you’re not socially well-calibrated and you want to hit on women, you should focus on places where talking to strangers is not just permitted but expected – places that are explicitly for people to meet and mingle. In these venues and events, it’s understood that chatting up strangers is the norm and it’s a primary reason why folks go there. It won’t make up for a lack of charisma or poor social skills, but it’s a place where you can at least know that talking to strangers is the norm.
Compounding this is that – as I said – most of the time, guys aren’t interested in talking, they’re interested in approaching. That is: they’re trying to get a date from a stranger, not just make pleasant small talk. This changes the dynamic of the entire interaction. It’s no longer about meeting and connecting with someone, specifically it’s about coming in with an agenda and not caring about the person. It’s saying “I know nothing about you except that you have something I want,” and a lot of folks are put off by that. Even people who are down to clown with a stranger prefer someone who’s interested in them as an individual, not just an ambulatory Fleshlight.
There’s also the fact that this behavior works against the people who are doing the approaching. Moving in on a stranger in an attempt to get a date tends to be counterproductive. Leaving aside questions of whether the attention is wanted, or the person is single and open to dating, the vast majority of people don’t date someone they met only 20 minutes ago. Even on dating apps, there tend to be multiple conversations before a date happens.
Taking slower approach by taking dating off the table and instead just focusing on being social, getting to know someone and being fun to talk to isn’t as sexy to brag about to your friends (or strangers on the Internet) but it’s more effective and efficient in the long run. Giving someone the opportunity to get to know you and for you to know them is a much better method to building the sorts of connections that lead to dates and from dates to relationships.
Now putting this in practical terms: you’re totally within your bounds to talk to women when and wherever you meet them. But if you want them to actually be interested in talking to you and possibly get a date down the line, you need to take a different tack.
First: read the room. If you’re not in a social venue like a bar or a specific event like a singles mixer, pay attention to who’s actually interested in talking and who’s giving clear “do not disturb” signs and respect those. If you’re not sure, err on the side of “probably not”.
Second: don’t do approaches. Don’t just hit on women. Just strike up a conversation like a normal person. This could mean making chit-chat in line to get coffee, sitting next to each other at the counter at a restaurant or food court, even someone waiting for the bus or the train… but again, only if they’re actually interested and open to talking.
There are more opportunities for this than you’d think. People can and do enjoy small talk, even with strangers, if the other person isn’t a jackass. Focus on getting to know someone, learning more about them and seeing what makes them tick. You know you find them attractive, but that’s all you know about them. You want to know them as a person: the classic “what do they have going for them besides their looks”.
Speaking of…
Third: focus on your social skills, especially being fun to talk to. Leaving aside that this is a very valuable skill to have overall, if people enjoy talking with you, they’re going to want to keep talking with you. Nobody says “well I enjoy that person’s company and so I will never speak to them again,” after all. They say “man, I want to keep this conversation going!” They will prioritize talking with you because you’re fun to talk to.
I can’t emphasize how most of the sex-gettingest men I know aren’t the hottest, richest, fittest or most famous. They’re dudes who simply know how to make people feel good when they chat and are fun to be with.
Similarly, I can’t tell you how many women I know whose relationships always start with “I just had the most amazing conversation…”
Yes, you can and should work on your presentation – your style, your hygiene, your grooming and so on. It’ll make you look better and feel better, which will help your confidence and thus improve your physical attractiveness. But it’s your social skills and ability to actually connect with people that are what lead to relationships.
You want to be the sort of person who can talk to anyone at any time, in any place? Start working on being interested in talking to everyone and being someone people like to talk to.
Do that and you’ll never have to worry about being “allowed” to meet or talk to women again.
Good luck.
Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com