DEAR DR. NERDLOVE: I’m a 33 year old man and I’m writing with regards to a recent experience with a girl who has placed me seemingly firmly in the Friend Zone.
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I’d like your insight and suggestions as to what best course of action may be, as I’m aware that anything regarding Friend Zone and or cockblocking tends to be particularly difficult in general.
This girl and I have known each other for years through our mutual circle of summer friends, but between 2019 and 2020, especially during the initial stages of the COVID19 pandemic and subsequent lockdown, we became particularly close and more intimate emotionally. Let me also first clarify that nothing physical has ever happened with this girl, and also that she lives in Italy and I in the U.K, so our exchanges have primarily been over the phone and Facebook Messenger.
Over time, our conversations got longer, more intimate and deeper, with her starting to show some of the typical IOI’s, e.g. assessing my current status, asking about previous relationships and other such topics. I could tell her attraction towards me was growing in a sort of zig zag sort of manner, with the odd s--t test thrown here and there, some of which I’d pass and some of which I’d fail.
Unfortunately it got to the point where I could no longer hold my feelings in and confessed my crush on her this one night after having had a few drinks (bad bad mistake, I know), at which point she immediately Friend Zoned me. I initially accepted, also due to the immediacy of the shock and feeling quite overwhelmed, but later realised that friendship was not what I wanted and expressed my ultimatum (for lack of better word) to her by saying that I was not interested in being friends only and that if she was ever to change her mind about me she’d know where and how to contact me.
I feel like I have taken the best possible course of action, also having read that walking away can create massive attraction and having heard of few instances in which Friend Zone had been reversed thanks to the guy being able to walk and never look back. I wanted to ask your insight as to whether or not I took the best possible course of action and whether such a course of action has the potential to create the necessary attraction for her to reach out to me in time and progress things further?
Many thanks in advance
Friend Zone Projector
DEAR FRIEND ZONE PROJECTOR: Hoo boy.
Well, you asked FZP, but I don’t think you’re gonna like the answer.
First things first: there’s no such thing as “the Friend Zone”. While I freely admit that I use The Friend Zone as a term of convenience in the column, the phrase — especially as other folks use it — tends to imply that this is an active behavior; something that’s done to you by others. It’s not; it’s simply the absence of attraction. People aren’t “Friend Zoning” you, nor are they “putting” you anywhere. There are simply folks who aren’t interested in dating or sleeping with you. That’s it.
That’s an important distinction to keep in mind because, frankly, I think you’ve got the entirely wrong idea about your relationship with this woman and you’ve been going about things entirely the wrong way.
Let’s start with the most obvious: you use a lot of PUA lingo in your letter, from IOIs (indications of interest) and “s--t test”. As someone who started in the PUA scene and left I can tell you from personal experience: when you’re deep enough in that you’re still using the jargon, then you’re almost always coming to interactions with women with a self-limiting series of beliefs and ones that are often so comedically off base that they aren’t even wrong. S--t tests are a prime example. The entire concept of s--t tests is predicated on the idea that women look for men of equal or higher social status or “sexual market value” and are on the look-out for guys who are “faking” their status. Rather than, y’know, act like human beings, these theoretical women will instead “test” men by doing things like “giving them s--t” or “asking them to do things like buy her a drink”. Men who are either “high value” or are good at faking it, will recognize these tests for what they are and “pass” them by… well, mostly by ignoring them or otherwise trying to play off of them in some way to prove they’re unruffled by all of this. Because they’re so high value, you see.
The problem is that, as a general rule, women don’t s--t test people. What PUAs call “s--t tests” are what pretty much everyone else calls “doesn’t want to be bothered,” or “isn’t interested in you and wants you to go away.” Dudes who try to “pass” those s--t tests by ignoring them, giving s--t back or otherwise sticking around where they aren’t wanted aren’t “proving their value”, they’re being obnoxious and not reading someone’s active disinterest. While yes, on occasion you can find the odd individual who likes to push people’s buttons or wants to prove something to themselves by seeing how much they can get away with, they’re not the norm. In fact, we have a specific name for people like that: a—holes.
So, if you’re in a situation where you think that a woman is giving you a s--t test, you are either a) annoying her or b) dealing with an a—hole who likes playing games. In either case, the only winning move is to walk away. If it’s the former, the odds of your being able to “win her over” are low and requires far more time and effort than it would ever actually be worth. What’s far more likely is that you’re going to go from “annoying” to “please someone get me away from this guy.” If it’s the latter, then walking away means you’re not continuing to indulge someone who thinks that playing games is appropriate behavior. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
The same goes with IOIs, especially in the context of the conversations you’d been having with her. While yes, there are times when folks will show interest by asking about your relationship status, you’re far more likely to get this from someone you just met at a social mixer… not from someone you’ve known for a while. If you’re talking to a friend or an acquaintance who’s becoming a friend, that’s far more likely to just be someone trying to get to know you as a person. Especially if the topic of relationships or dating has come up in casual conversation.
(And I have a more than sneaking suspicion that you may have tried to steer the conversation towards dating in an attempt to prompt or force IOIs…)
I don’t think you were “Friend Zoned” in the sense that you intend. I think you indulged in some dickful thinking, started taking normal human interaction as covert signs of interest and, as a result, let your imagination fill in the rest. Then, after a few drinks lowered your inhibitions, you feelings-dumped all over her, she turned you down politely and that should have been the end of that. Except it wasn’t. You went and took backsies on being friends, laid down an ultimatum and walked away from the friendship. Now you’re waiting to see if this is going to be what brings her around.
Well, I hope you packed a lunch my dude, because you’re gonna be waiting for a long damn time. A really long time.
Here’s the thing: there’s nothing inherently wrong with not wanting to be friends with someone you’re attracted to. While friendship isn’t the consolation prize for dating, you’re not obligated to be friends with folks who turned you down. If friendship isn’t something that you want from that relationship, you are well within your rights to say “no, thank you,” and go your own way. That doesn’t make you a jerk.
The way you go about doing this, on the other hand, does. And making a production of “nope, don’t want to be friends” after having been acting like a friend to her up until you got rejected… well, that’s not gonna cover you in glory, chief. It certainly isn’t going to change her mind and build attraction to you. What it’s far more likely to do is make her think that you were trying to pull the Platonic Best Friend Back Door Gambit and were looking for an opportunity to Nice Guy your way into her pants.
And honestly, the PUA jargon isn’t exactly leading me to believe you didn’t have a hidden agenda from the jump.
There’s nothing wrong with finding someone attractive and wanting to date them. There’s also nothing wrong with having developed pantsfeels for someone you are friends with. But in both cases, it’s better to proceed with honesty, openness and integrity than trying to hide your interest until such a time that you think you’ve built up enough Attraction Points that you can make your move.
Let’s be real: that’s not the approach you’re taking here. You’re still treating this as a matter of power and gamesmanship, where if you play your cards juuuuust right, you’re going to impress her with your… I dunno, willingness to walk away and that this is going to somehow win her over. And — spoiler alert! — it won’t. Especially not when you’re metaphorically looking over your shoulder to see if she noticed and if she cares. That’s not displaying confidence or value, that’s making a production of walking away and hoping that it has the desired effect.
The way that you get out of “the friend zone” is to change how she sees you. This often entails time apart and making a significant and genuine change to your life, so that if and when the two of you are in contact again, you no longer fit her mental image and she reassess how she sees you. However, the mistake most guys make is that they don’t make those changes; they only make surface changes in hopes that it’ll convince their crush that they’re different. It only works if you’re making changes for yourself, improving yourself for your own sake and working towards becoming your best self. Doing it for someone else only backfires. It’s not genuine, it’s not lasting and it won’t change people’s minds.
I’m going to be blunt: you’ve backed yourself into a corner here. Your only play is to continue what you started: you walked away, so now you’re gonna have to keep walking. That means legitimately letting her go and letting your hope of getting with her fade into the distance. The more you hope that she’s going to notice whatever you’re doing, the more you assure that she won’t care. Walking away means accepting that this ain’t gonna happen and to move on.
Will that win her back? Probably not… especially since there was no “back” to win her to. But moving on means that you will have learned from these mistakes and you won’t make the same ones the next time you develop a crush on someone.
Good luck.
Please send your questions to Dr. NerdLove at his website (www.doctornerdlove.com/contact); or to his email, doc@doctornerdlove.com